The coming Iran war

User avatar
lkwalker
Posts: 6429
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:20 pm
Location: Boycotteverything
Contact:

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by lkwalker » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:03 pm

I really think Israel is silently supported by every Sunni state in the region. None of them want to see a nuclear armed Iran. It's their worst nightmare.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

User avatar
Pana
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:40 pm

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by Pana » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:16 pm

Iran is not an expanionist nation.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

-Albert Camus

User avatar
Pana
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:40 pm

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by Pana » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:23 pm

WE'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE -- AND IT SUITS ISRAEL THAT WE NEVER FORGET 'NUCLEAR IRAN'
By Robert Fisk

** The Ayatollah ordered the entire nuclear project to be closed down because it was the work of the devil **

Independent (London)
January 25, 2012

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 94111.html

Turning round a story is one of the most difficult tasks in journalism -- and rarely more so than in the case of Iran. Iran, the dark revolutionary Islamist menace. Shia Iran, protector and manipulator of World Terror, of Syria and Lebanon and Hamas and Hezbollah. Ahmadinejad, the Mad Caliph. And, of course, Nuclear Iran, preparing to destroy Israel in a mushroom cloud of anti-Semitic hatred, ready to close the Strait of Hormuz -- the moment the West's (or Israel's) forces attack.

Given the nature of the theocratic regime, the repulsive suppression of its post-election opponents in 2009, not to mention its massive pools of oil, every attempt to inject common sense into the story also has to carry a medical health warning: no, of course Iran is not a nice place. But ...

Let's take the Israeli version which, despite constant proof that Israel's intelligence services are about as efficient as Syria's, goes on being trumpeted by its friends in the West, none more subservient than Western journalists. The Israeli President warns us now that Iran is on the cusp of producing a nuclear weapon. Heaven preserve us. Yet we reporters do not mention that Shimon Peres, as Israeli Prime Minister, said exactly the same thing in 1996. That was 16 years ago. And we do not recall that the current Israeli PM, Benjamin Netanyahu, said in 1992 that Iran would have a nuclear bomb by 1999. That would be 13 years ago. Same old story.

In fact, we don't know that Iran really is building a nuclear weapon. And after Iraq, it's amazing that the old weapons of mass destruction details are popping with the same frequency as all the poppycock about Saddam's titanic arsenal. Not to mention the date problem. When did all this start? The Shah. The old boy wanted nuclear power. He even said he wanted a bomb because "the U.S. and the Soviet Union had nuclear bombs" and no one objected. Europeans rushed to supply the dictator's wish. Siemens -- not Russia -- built the Bushehr nuclear facility.

And when Ayatollah Khomeini, Scourge of the West, Apostle of Shia Revolution, etc., took over Iran in 1979, he ordered the entire nuclear project to be closed down because it was "the work of the Devil." Only when Saddam invaded Iran -- with our Western encouragement -- and started using poison gas against the Iranians (chemical components arriving from the West, of course) was Khomeini persuaded to reopen it.

All this has been deleted from the historical record; it was the black-turbaned mullahs who started the nuclear project, along with the crackpot Ahmadinejad. And Israel might have to destroy this terror-weapon to secure its own survival, to ensure the West's survival, for democracy, etc, etc.

For Palestinians in the West Bank, Israel is the brutal, colonizing, occupying power. But the moment Iran is mentioned, this colonial power turns into a tiny, vulnerable, peaceful state under imminent threat of extinction. Ahmadinejad -- here again, I quote Netanyahu -- is more dangerous than Hitler. Israel's own nuclear warheads -- all too real and now numbering almost 300 -- disappear from the story. Iran's Revolutionary Guards are helping the Syrian regime destroy its opponents; they might like to -- but there is no proof of this.

The trouble is that Iran has won almost all its recent wars without firing a shot. George W. and Tony destroyed Iran's nemesis in Iraq. They killed thousands of the Sunni army whom Iran itself always referred to as "the black Taliban." And the Gulf Arabs, our "moderate" friends, shiver in their golden mosques as we in the West outline their fate in the event of an Iranian Shia revolution.

No wonder Cameron goes on selling weapons to these preposterous people whose armies, in many cases, could scarcely operate soup kitchens, let alone the billions of dollars of sophisticated kit we flog them under the fearful shadow of Tehran.

Bring on the sanctions. Send in the clowns.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

-Albert Camus

User avatar
lkwalker
Posts: 6429
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:20 pm
Location: Boycotteverything
Contact:

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by lkwalker » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:58 pm

Gotta love Fiskers. And he's right in every respect. But he's overlooked Iran's other intractable enemies in that essay- the Sunnis who are scared shitless of a nuclear armed regional superpower in their midst. And... Russia who has zero interest in s nuclear armed Iran. Then, of course, there's the possibility that Iran, itself, has no interest in building a Bomb. There's no evidence that such a program exists- only the fear that it is the logical extension of any nuclear program, peaceful or otherwise. The only nuclear power that has not gone on to build a Bomb is Japan as far as we know. And so therein lies the apprehension in regard to Iran. But then there another mitigating factor in Iran's favor. That country has never been known to be an expansioowen power- well.. at least for the last 3000 years or so.

So i'd say fuck the sanctions and the threats and concentrate on engagement and friendship. Despite all the bluster and bullshit coming from their leadership Iran has no real interest in 'wiping Israel for the map.' Rather their international posture results from the anti-Iranian policy of American and Britain since the revolution. They are surrounded by US bases and a variety of US sponsored hot wars on their very borders. What country in its right mind wouldn't be living in fear of immanent hostilities from the most powerful nations on the planet given those circumstances?

It's a fucking mess, alright. And short of American disengagement from the region I see no solution.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

User avatar
lkwalker
Posts: 6429
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:20 pm
Location: Boycotteverything
Contact:

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by lkwalker » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:09 pm

Pana wrote:Iran is not an expanionist nation.
That is true. The problem proceeds from the knowledge that the peaceful use of nuclear fission is really nothing but a footnote to its original use: the atom bomb. And for good or for ill those two opposing paradigms are forever conjoined in the perception of all things nuclear. I don't foresee that changing any time soon.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

User avatar
Pana
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:40 pm

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by Pana » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:14 pm

But the U.A.E. and Saudi Arabia are in plans to build their own nuclear facilities (with the U.S. blessing). Right now they rely on natural gas to fuel their electricity plants. With an eye to the future, they are wanting and are changing over.

Here:
http://www.enec.gov.ae/

and here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 85500.html

So, what's good for the gander....:)

----------------

At this point, if the U.S. pulls out, China will just walk in. Saudi Arabia is in an agreement with them to develop their nuclear know how.
The more things change, the more things stay the same.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

-Albert Camus

User avatar
lkwalker
Posts: 6429
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:20 pm
Location: Boycotteverything
Contact:

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by lkwalker » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:44 pm

This will end badly, think I.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

MrPenny
Posts: 722
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by MrPenny » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:05 pm

lkwalker wrote:I really think Israel is silently supported by every Sunni state in the region. None of them want to see a nuclear armed Iran. It's their worst nightmare.
The Saudis in particular. Iran's apparent thirst for hegemony makes them very uneasy.

User avatar
Egg
Posts: 8628
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:31 pm
Location: In Your Bedroom. Hi! :D

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by Egg » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:10 pm

Nothing about the middle east is as clear cut as some people like to think it is.


User avatar
Dr Exile
Posts: 2349
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:37 pm
Location: Skellig Michael

Re: The coming Iran war

Post by Dr Exile » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:00 pm

The West had a treaty with Turkey at the end of WWI. Keep the Sunni's in power in Iraq. Bush was an idiot.
Credo quia absurdum.

Post Reply