MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of nature

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Pigeon
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MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of nature

Post by Pigeon » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:19 pm

It is said to be beyond the "God Particle," or the Higgs-boson

Punzi said the new observation behaves differently than the Higgs-boson, which would be decaying into heavy quarks, or particles.

The new discovery "is decaying in normal quarks," Punzi said. "It has different features," he added.

"One thing we know for sure -- it is not the Higgs-boson. That is the only thing we know for sure."

Data from a major US atom smasher lab may have revealed a new elementary particle, or potentially a new force of nature, one of the physicists involved in the discovery told AFP on Wednesday.

The physics world was abuzz with excitement over the findings, which could offer clues to the persistent riddle of mass and how objects obtain it -- one of the most sought-after answers in all of physics.

But experts cautioned that more analysis was needed over the next several months to uncover the true nature of the discovery, which comes as part of an ongoing experiment with proton and antiproton collisions to understand the workings of the universe.

"There could be some new force beyond the force that we know," said Giovanni Punzi, a physicist with the international research team that is analyzing the data from the US Department of Energy's Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory.

"If it is confirmed, it could point to a whole new world of interactions," he told AFP.

While much remains a mystery, researchers agree that this is not the "God Particle," or the Higgs-boson, a hypothetical elementary particle which has long eluded physicists who believe it could explain why objects have mass.

"The Higgs-boson is a piece that goes into the puzzle that we already have," said Punzi. "Whereas this is something that goes a little bit beyond that -- a new interaction, a new force."

Punzi said the new observation behaves differently than the Higgs-boson, which would be decaying into heavy quarks, or particles.

The new discovery "is decaying in normal quarks," Punzi said. "It has different features," he added.

"One thing we know for sure -- it is not the Higgs-boson. That is the only thing we know for sure."

Physicists were to discuss their findings further in a meeting to be webcast at 2100 GMT (1600 CDT).

For more than a year physicists have been studying what appears to be a "bump" in the data from the Illinois-based Fermi lab, which operates the powerful particle accelerator, or atom-smasher, Tevatron.

The Tevatron was once the most powerful machine in the world for such purposes until 2008 when the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) became operational at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, which goes by the acronym CERN.

The US machine began its work in the mid 1980s, and is scheduled for shutdown later this year when its funding runs dry.

"These results are certainly tantalizing," said Nigel Lockyer, director of Canada's national laboratory for particle and nuclear physics, TRIUMF.

"It is too early to say for sure what the Fermilab team has observed," he added in an email to AFP.

"On the one hand, there is clear evidence for something unexplained, and on the other, there is a long list of alternative explanations for what might be causing this subtle observation," he said.

"My personal judgment is that this excitement is adding fuel to the fire for the next generation of results and discoveries that will be made at the LHC (in Europe) and elsewhere. We are so close to learning something profound."

Lockyer, a former spokesman for the Collider Detector at Fermilab (CDF), which made the announcement, said there is another major experiment going on at Tevatron, a sister project known as D-Zero, which could help confirm the data in the coming months.

"They are both multipurpose detectors. They both have the capability of seeing this," he said, predicting a rush of opinions by theoretical physicists in the coming days, and more data that could shed more light on the finding by summer.

"It will become very much clearer in the next few months. You won't have to wait years."

Link

Image

A comment on the physorg linked page:

The paper with the results is already published. If you're familiar with physics, it's worth a look and shows an obvious deviation from the predictions of the standard model. The later press release, while obviously used as a media gimick, is probably so they have time to dumb it down. The paper does NOT go as far as to interpret the results. i.e., they don't say they've found the boson, dark matter, new physical laws, etc. I'd be disappointed if they started doing that before peer-review and a reproduction of the results in a separate test.


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Re: MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of natur

Post by Dr Exile » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:13 pm

The US machine began its work in the mid 1980s, and is scheduled for shutdown later this year when its funding runs dry.
This says it all. No better time to find something spiffy.
Credo quia absurdum.

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Pigeon
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Re: MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of natur

Post by Pigeon » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:38 pm

From Fermi Lab

Wednesday afternoon, the CDF collaboration announced that it has evidence of a peak in a specific sample of its data. The peak is an excess of particle collision events that produce a W boson accompanied by two hadronic jets. This peak showed up in a mass region where we did not expect one. The peak was observed in the 140 GeV/c2 mass range, as shown in the plot above. It is the kind of peak in a plot that, if confirmed, scientists associate with the existence of a particle. The significance of this excess was determined to be 3.2 sigma, after accounting for the effect of systematic uncertainties. This means that there is less than a 1 in 1375 chance that the effect is mimicked by a statistical fluctuation. Particle physicists consider a result at 5.0 sigma to be a discovery.

The excess might be explained by the production of a new, unknown particle that is not predicted by the Standard Model, the current standard theory of the fundamental laws of physics. The features of this excess exclude the possibility that this peak might be due to a Standard Model Higgs boson or a supersymmetric particle. Instead, we might see a completely new type of force or interaction. A few models proposed and developed in recent years postulate the existence of new fundamental interactions beyond those known today, which would create an excess similar to the one seen in the CDF data. That’s why everybody at CDF is excited about this result.

The alternative explanation for this excess would be that we need to reconsider the theory that is used to predict the background spectrum, which is based on standard particle physics processes. That possibility, albeit less glamorous, would still have important implications. Those calculations use theoretical tools that are generally regarded as reliable and well understood, and form the basis of many other predictions in particle physics. Questioning these tools would require us to challenge our understanding of the fundamental forces of nature, the foundation of particle physics.

The current analysis is based on 4.3 inverse femtobarns of data. The CDF collaboration will repeat the analysis with at least twice as much data to see whether the bump gets more or less pronounced. Other experiments, including DZero and the LHC experiments, will look for a particle of about 140 GeV/c2 in their data as well. Their results will either refute or confirm our result. Our result has been submitted to Physical Review Letters. You can read the paper and watch the lecture online.

It remains to be seen whether this measurement is an important indication of long-awaited new physics beyond the Standard Model.

Fermi Lab Today


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Egg
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Re: MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of natur

Post by Egg » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:41 pm

Hey HP, the top article - that discovery is from some months ago, right? I think I remember reading about that a few months back.


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Re: MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of natur

Post by Pigeon » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:50 pm

From what I gather it has been published. It really hasn't been in the news much until the talk of a press conference.

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Re: MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of natur

Post by Egg » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:53 pm

I'd be disappointed if they started doing that before peer-review and a reproduction of the results in a separate test.
Reproduction in a separate test.... wasn't this kinda accidental. Two particles shot through the atom smasher - who knows what you're going to get?


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Pigeon
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Re: MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of natur

Post by Pigeon » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:00 pm

It happened. Doubt if they get fooled easily. Time will tell.

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Re: MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of natur

Post by Egg » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:16 pm

Pigeon wrote:It happened. Doubt if they get fooled easily. Time will tell.

Hmmmm... I know it happened. I mean the test itself, the result is kind of accidental, isn't it? They just launch particles at each other and see what happens, right? How much control of that do they really have?


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Re: MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of natur

Post by Pam » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:25 pm

"There could be some new force beyond the force that we know," said Giovanni Punzi, a physicist with the international research team that is analyzing the data from the US Department of Energy's Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory.

"If it is confirmed, it could point to a whole new world of interactions," he told AFP.
What do you think this means "whole new world of interactions"

Interactions with what or who?

I struggle to understand the technical talk as science is another one of my weak points, those words specifically make me wonder what the heck they could possibly mean?

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Re: MAJOR: US atom smasher may have found new force of natur

Post by Egg » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:34 pm

Pam wrote:
"There could be some new force beyond the force that we know," said Giovanni Punzi, a physicist with the international research team that is analyzing the data from the US Department of Energy's Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory.

"If it is confirmed, it could point to a whole new world of interactions," he told AFP.
What do you think this means "whole new world of interactions"

Interactions with what or who?

I struggle to understand the technical talk as science is another one of my weak points, those words specifically make me wonder what the heck they could possibly mean?
I'm guessing they mean, it will change physics as we know it. Newtonian or otherwise.


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