Why Libya and not Palestine?

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Egg
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Egg » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:27 pm

COUNTRY AID PURPOSE
1. Israel $2.4 billion Virtually all of this money is used to buy weapons (up to 75% made in the U.S.). Beginning in 2009, the U.S. plans to give $30 billion over 10 years.
2. Egypt $1.7 billion $1.3 billion to buy weapons; $103 million for education; $74 million for health care; $45 million to promote civic participation and human rights.
3. Pakistan $798 million $330 million for security efforts, including military-equipment upgrades and border security; $20 million for infrastructure.
4. Jordan $688 million $326 million to fight terrorism and promote regional stability through equipment upgrades and training; $163 million cash payment to the Jordanian government.
5. Kenya $586 million $501 million to fight HIV/AIDS through drug treatment and abstinence education and to combat malaria; $15 million for agricultural development; $5.4 million for programs that promote government accountability.
6. South Africa $574 million $557 million to fight TB and HIV/AIDS; $3 million for education.
7. Mexico $551 million Click here for details.

8. Colombia $541 million Click here for details.
9. Nigeria $491 million Click here for details.
10. Sudan $479 million Click here for details.

http://www.parade.com/news/intelligence ... n-aid.html


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Mur
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Mur » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:40 pm

Snow Crash wrote:LOL... you're trying to compare aid figures? Between Israel and Palestine?

I think you're crowing a little early if you believe your figure is going to demonstrate that Israel does not recieve massively preferential treatment.

As you like figures, would you care to go fetch them? Or are they a little... inconvenient?

In your quote.....you implied the USA does nothing to help the Palestinians.
I am not saying the US has to drop everything to help the Palestinians.
In fact we are the #1 provider of Aid in the World to the Paslestinians.

#1

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Snow Crash
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Snow Crash » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:43 pm

Here's some inconvenience, Mur:

Report: U.S. Arms Transfers and Security Assistance to Israel - World Policy Institute - Research Project
ARMS TRADE RESOURCE CENTER

U.S. Arms Transfers and Security Assistance to Israel


An Arms Trade Resource Center Fact Sheet
by William D. Hartung and Frida Berrigan
May 6, 2002

U.S. press coverage of Israeli attacks on the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian towns on the West Bank often treat the U.S. government as either an innocent bystander or an honest broker in the current conflict, often without giving a full sense of the importance of the United States role as a supplier of arms, aid, and military technology to Israel. In its role as Israel’s primary arms supplier, the United States could exert significant potential leverage over Israeli behavior in the conflict, if it chooses to do so.

Military and Economic Aid

Since 1976, Israel had been the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign assistance. According to a November 2001 Congressional Research Service report, Israel: U.S. Foreign Assistance, U.S. aid to Israel in the last half century has totaled a whopping $81.3 billion.

In recent years, Israel remains the top recipient of U.S. military and economic assistance. The most commonly cited figure is $3 billion a year, with about $1.8 billion a year in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) grants from the Department of Defense and an additional $1.2 billion a year in Economic Support Funds (ESF) from the Department of State. In the last decade FMF grants to Israel have totaled $18.2 billion. In fact, 17% of all U.S. foreign aid is earmarked for Israel.

For 2003, the Bush administration is proposing that Israel receive $2.76 billion in foreign aid, with $2.1 billion in FMF and $600 million in ESF. An additional $28 million will go to Israel for the purchase U.S. manufactured counter terrorism equipment.

Weapons Sales and Grants

Israel is one of the United State’s largest arms importers. In the last decade, the United States has sold Israel $7.2 billion in weaponry and military equipment, $762 million through Direct Commercial Sales (DCS), more than $6.5 billion through the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) program.

In fact, Israel is so devoted to U.S. military hardware that it has the world's largest fleet of F-16s outside the U.S., currently possessing more than 200 jets. Another 102 F-16s are on order from Lockheed Martin.

The United States has also underwritten Israel’s domestic armaments industry, by giving:

$1.3 billion to develop the Lavi aircraft (cancelled)
$625 million to develop and deploy the Arrow anti-missile missile (an ongoing project)
$200 million to develop the Merkava tank (operative); the latest version, the Merkava 4, uses a German V-12 diesel engine produced under license in the U.S. by General Dynamics
$130 million to develop the high-energy laser anti-missile system (ongoing).
While overall aid to Israel is slated to decrease over the next five years, military aid will increase significantly. One of President Clinton’s last acts was to sign an agreement with Israel, phasing out the ESF by 2008. At the same time, FMF funds to Israel will increase $60 million each year, reaching $2.4 billion by 2008.

Free Weapons to Israel

The U.S. also gives Israel weapons and ammunition as part of the Excess Defense Articles (EDA) program, providing these articles completely free of charge. Between 1994-2001 the U.S. provided many weapons through this program, including:

64,744 M-16A1 rifles
2,469 M-204 grenade launchers
1,500 M-2 .50 caliber machine guns
.30 caliber, .50 caliber, and 20mm ammunition
U.S. Weapons in the Israeli Arsenal

Selected list


Weapon
Quantity
Manufacturer
Cost Per Unit

Fighter Planes

F-4E Phantom
50
Boeing
$18.4 million

F-15 Eagle
98
Boeing (originally McDonnell Douglas)
$38 million

F-16 Fighting Falcon
237
Lockheed Martin
$34.3 million

Helicopters

AH-64 Apache Attack
42
Boeing
$14.5 million

Cobra Attack
57
Bell Textron
$10.7 million

CH-53D Sea Stallion
38
Sikorsky

Blackhawk
25
Sikorsky
$11 million

Missiles

AGM 65 Maverick
Raytheon
$17,000-$110,000

AGM 114 Hellfire
Boeing
$40,000

TOW
Hughes
$180,000

AIM 7 Sparrow
Raytheon
$125,000

AIM 9 Sidewinder
Raytheon
$84,000

AIM 120 B AMRAAM
Raytheon
$386,000

Patriot
Raytheon and Lockheed Martin

Harpoon Anti-Ship Missile
Boeing
$720,000


Weapons that Kill

It is in the United States' national interest to promote the existence of a stable, democratic and militarily strong Israel, at peace with its neighbors.

U.S. Department of Defense statement on Israel, in Joint Report to Congress, January 3, 2001

The scale of Israeli attacks on Palestinian towns and refugee camps in the West Bank has been "disproportionate and often reckless," according to a recent Amnesty International report. Amnesty estimates that in the six weeks from March 1, through mid-April, more than 600 Palestinians have been killed and over 3,000 wounded by Israeli soldiers.

The use of U.S. weapons in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinian authority appears to be a clear violation of the U.S. Arms Export Control Act prohibiting U.S. weapons from being used for non-defensive purposes. The State Department’s Country Reports on Human Rights Practices 2001, released in March 2002, stated that the IDF employed "excessive use of force" against the Palestinians, noting their use of live ammunition, even when not in imminent danger. The State Department report also stated that Israeli military "shelled Palestinian Authority (PA) institutions and Palestinian civilian areas in response to individual Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians or settlers." These comments demonstrate that the U.S. knows that weapons are not being used for the "legitimate defense" purposes stipulated in the Arms Export Control Act.

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan recently expressed his concern with the use of U.S. weapons by the IDF, saying

I feel obliged to call your attention to disturbing patterns in the treatment of civilians and humanitarian relief workers by the Israeli Defense Forces…. Judging from the means and methods employed by the IDF-- F-16 fighter-bombers, helicopter and naval gunships, missiles and bombs of heavy tonnage-- the fighting has come to resemble all-out conventional warfare. In the process, hundreds of innocent noncombatant civilians -- men, women and children -- have been injured or killed, and many buildings and homes have been damaged or destroyed. Tanks have been deployed in densely populated refugee camps and in towns and villages; and heavy explosives have been dropped mere meters from schools where thousands of children were in attendance.

Instances of the IDF’s Use of U.S. Weapons against Civilians

Gaza, CNN, February 11, 2002
"On Sunday [February 10, 2002], Israel attacked the headquarters of Force 17, the elite guard for Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat. Two employees of the United Nations were wounded and a UN facility was damaged in the attack, prompting condemnation of the action from UN Secretary General Kofi Annan. The UN said it was the third time the office of Terje Roed-Larsen, the UN special coordinator for the Middle East peace process, had been damaged as a result of attacks by the Israelis. The bombing also caused damage to other UN offices, including that of the representatives of the High Commissioner for Human Rights.

Jenin, New York Times, April 18, 2002
"The decaying body of Mr. Khurj's sister appears to be one of the clearest examples to date of a civilian having been killed in an Apache helicopter missile attack. There is an enormous hole in the wall of her bedroom and a two-foot-wide crater in the floor. Shards of a missile, including one with labels in English describing ''firing temperature'' and ''cooling temperature,'' littered the floor. Near the hole in the wall was a pool of dried blood. Mr. Khurj said the missile struck in the middle of the night on the third day of the attack. It killed his sister instantly."

Deheishe, Washington Post, March 10, 2002.
"Today Israeli tanks and troops invaded the other camp, Deheishe, which has a population of 8,000. Tanks and bulldozers had been positioned on a hill behind the community, and armed AH-64 Apache attack helicopters had hovered overhead. Soldiers knocked down a pedestrian bridge that led to the camp's school."

Bethlehem, Washington Post, March 8, 2002.
"The Israeli military almost immediately launched more missiles and opened fire with gunboats at official Palestinian buildings in the Gaza Strip, where there were heavy casualties. Israel also sent dozens of tanks and armored personnel carriers into Bethlehem, two adjacent Palestinian refugee camps and a pair of neighboring West Bank towns, bringing full-scale military action to the suburbs of Jerusalem. The bark of heavy machine guns atop Israel's armored vehicles echoed throughout Bethlehem, considered the birthplace of Jesus, and U.S.-supplied AH-64 Apache helicopters fired into the Aida refugee camp between Bethlehem and Beit Jala."

World Policy
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Snow Crash
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Snow Crash » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:46 pm

Mur wrote:In your quote.....you implied the USA does nothing to help the Palestinians.
I am not saying the US has to drop everything to help the Palestinians.
In fact we are the #1 provider of Aid in the World to the Paslestinians.

#1
What you feel I implied is not actually what I said though, is it?

Let me guess, it was the pointing out of the hypocrisy that pissed you off, wasn't it.

Oh well. Maybe you should 'vote out' the ones that create the situation, Mur.
Make way for the Bad Guy

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Mur
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Mur » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:49 pm

I said nothing about Israel

I said you were wrong about the USA not helping Palestinians.

Quoting you Snow
I am not saying the US has to drop everything to help the Palestinians.
In fact we are the #1 provider of Aid to the Palestinians in the World

#1

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Snow Crash
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Snow Crash » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:55 pm

Mur wrote:I said nothing about Israel

I said you were wrong about the USA not helping Palestinians.

Quoting you Snow
I am not saying the US has to drop everything to help the Palestinians.
In fact we are the #1 provider of Aid to the Palestinians in the World

#1
Oh wait... I get it... you're quoting me out of context deliberately, and are just pretending you don't know what I am saying for the purposes of your bruised nationalism... sorry, I should have guessed.
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Mur
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Mur » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:56 pm

Snow Crash wrote:
Mur wrote:In your quote.....you implied the USA does nothing to help the Palestinians.
I am not saying the US has to drop everything to help the Palestinians.
In fact we are the #1 provider of Aid in the World to the Paslestinians.

#1
What you feel I implied is not actually what I said though, is it?

Let me guess, it was the pointing out of the hypocrisy that pissed you off, wasn't it.

Oh well. Maybe you should 'vote out' the ones that create the situation, Mur.

This clearly implies that the USA does not help Palestinians
I am not saying the US has to drop everything to help the Palestinians.
The World is full of hypocrisy....I'm not pissed about helping people that need help......but....

For the most part...I agree that we should not be funding either side.....I agree that our military needs to be withdrawn from many places around the world.

I'm voting for Ron Paul.

What are you doing?

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Mur
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Mur » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:57 pm

[quote="Snow Crash] Oh wait... I get it... you're quoting me out of context deliberately, and are just pretending you don't know what I am saying for the purposes of your bruised nationalism... sorry, I should have guessed.[/quote]


Out of context? hahahaha

Please do clear up what the context was

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Escape_Artist
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Escape_Artist » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:02 pm

So we pay isreal for "defense"... they fuck up a bunch of Palestinians with the cash, then we pay Palestine for the mess Isreal just made? Hmmmm...
Me gusta Capitalismo Anarquista!

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Snow Crash
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Re: Why Libya and not Palestine?

Post by Snow Crash » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:05 pm

Mur wrote:
Snow Crash wrote:
Mur wrote:In your quote.....you implied the USA does nothing to help the Palestinians.
I am not saying the US has to drop everything to help the Palestinians.
In fact we are the #1 provider of Aid in the World to the Paslestinians.

#1
What you feel I implied is not actually what I said though, is it?

Let me guess, it was the pointing out of the hypocrisy that pissed you off, wasn't it.

Oh well. Maybe you should 'vote out' the ones that create the situation, Mur.

This clearly implies that the USA does not help Palestinians
I am not saying the US has to drop everything to help the Palestinians.
The World is full of hypocrisy....I'm not pissed about helping people that need help......but....

For the most part...I agree that we should not be funding either side.....I agree that our military needs to be withdrawn from many places around the world.

I'm voting for Ron Paul.

What are you doing?
:facepalm:

So... I am just curious... is English your first language or what? What you feel I implied is not actually what I said. What I said is what I meant. You would understand that if you had actually bothered to make an effort to discover the context in which I made the comment, instead of going off half cocked because I bruised your national pride.

Would you like to try again?
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