What is Evil?

User avatar
IndicusMaximus
Posts: 1437
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:42 pm
Location: The End
Contact:

Re: What is Evil?

Post by IndicusMaximus » Fri May 06, 2011 10:49 pm

Wait I just saw a shiny thing. Keep explaining while I go investigate its edibility.
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they will see God.

Under the shadow of thy wings, Jehovah.

User avatar
Egg
Posts: 8628
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:31 pm
Location: In Your Bedroom. Hi! :D

Re: What is Evil?

Post by Egg » Sat May 07, 2011 7:02 am

lkwalker wrote:I thought you wanted to consider the Principle of Evil as opposed to trivial moralism. Order and 'orderliness' have nothing in common but a couple of accidental syllables. Are you here to learn or to make noise?
I think the guy's got questions. Explain what you're trying to say to him, man.


User avatar
Egg
Posts: 8628
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:31 pm
Location: In Your Bedroom. Hi! :D

Re: What is Evil?

Post by Egg » Sat May 07, 2011 7:05 am

IndicusMaximus wrote: I feel like THAT is what evil is, in a most practical definition. The scientific and philosophic and academic terms may put it differently, may say entropy, may say ...whatever terms they use... I don't read a lot of scholastic things, to be perfectly honest. Not my particular bag.... so maybe I've just stated things in a more Ecclesiastical or Evangelized way.... I don't know..... but .... it seems to be true no matter how you put it that evil is a THING and not just a mental maladjustment which comes due to unloving parents or childhood trauma or something.
What is the THAT that you're talking about? Chaos?

What THING do you mean exactly?


User avatar
IndicusMaximus
Posts: 1437
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:42 pm
Location: The End
Contact:

Re: What is Evil?

Post by IndicusMaximus » Sat May 07, 2011 7:59 am

I've got not words which need to be put into words, and if it was merely a problem of entropy... you could say OH the orb at the top is expanding and its God and the orb at the bottom is imploding, so it's Evil... or that Evil is the sea of chaos in which God has built an Island.... or that Evil is a low frequency and God is a high frequency.... or you could talk about infernal spheres and broken vessels compared to the "Perfection" of the Holy Sephiroth... or some shit....

but I think that "perfection" is a trap. The Sephiroth themselves, being "perfect Vessels of God's Glory" are limited. Every concept within the realm of those vessels is Limitation. No one can conceptualize what's beyond, because we ourselves are limited and the Sephiroth are the way we as limited vessels bound by geometric laws conceptualize God and Existence. The Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur must also be limited conceptions of the tools we've been given with which to view everything within that space which has been measured for us.

Any obscure sounding way you can possibly pussy foot around it, our concepts run in a closed loop and run back into themselves, and THAT in itself is the nature of knowledge and information....

In a way, that "trap" of percieved Divine Perfection is Evil. That very looped concept which again loops back to a homocentric (not homosexual...well... close) train of thought, is evil... because it ignores the fact that we are limited beings with only limited vantage points of both things terrestrial and things of God.

We are not prisoners to that, and to be tricked by all fronts into believing that we ARE prisoners... is EVIL. To declare Man as God, and to use man's ignorance in trust of his own supremacy and mastery as a mechanism of control... both here on Earth and in wider spheres of sight... is EVIL.

These are just physical, mental, and spiritual vessels of limited beings in a limited universe... but that doesn't mean we're forever trapped in some kind of horrible loop. It might seem that way from here, but we can't truly speak for anywhere else. We can't make that decision for the small furry animals and the big swirling galaxies and whatever else is out there.

I don't think it's our decision to make. Are we trapped by that, or are we a willing participant in that?

Some people, like black magicians, think very much so that we were trapped here by an insane repetetive God and that their business is to shatter the "Perfection" of God by being all juvenile and defiling everything. To me, even spooky evil-looking things that creep and sometimes scratch and bite and showthemselves at night aren't really evil at all. They're just stupid.

Chaos is impossible in a universal vessel of "perfection", and if a person was witness to "chaos", it's inherent nature towards regular patterned growth leads to a belief that chaos is actually not chaos at all, and therefore entropy is impossible as well if this is a closed loop system. "Chaos" would just be one of those "veils" they talk about in the Kabbalah, and therefore would be part of the vessel in which the sephirotic vessels would be contained. What is outside of that is a total and complete mystery to any of us....

But to deny their existence or the existence of God because we can't see past those veils or because those veils frighten the very cores of our being...

THAT is the essence of evil. making perfection God. Making any sort of Knowledge or Information or Geometry or Science or Language into God.

Evil is Perfection, and chaos is just another illusion to stop us from seeing what's making this wonderfully mysterious thing happen for us. I'm not saying that the whole universe is evil, but once you take that Form in which is used to operate the universe and make THAT the ideal and subjugate things because you've witnessed this thing you can't possibly really know much about, being in the midst of it and a guest of it.... that's when Evil begins, in my opinion. A creature within the realms of the universe has discovered this tendency, and used it against the whole of the universe to attempt to destroy it out of fear of what lies outside the veils of negative existence.... and out of sheer egotism that IT knows all the rules within its prison that it refuses to attempt to be released from. It's sheer ignorance and audacity at believing that knowledge of Perfection in all its permutations makes it master of all it surveys is only outweighed by its boredom and its hatred for what has become It's prison. It does not know why It still exists, and has become weary of its existence. Its peace is no longer peaceful. Its incarnations are no longer beautiful and enjoyable. It causes itself great pain and is in want of rest and release... but It doesn't know how, and It has fooled Itself into believing that there is no God... no existence beyond the veils... and It FEARS a release... or a trust in letting go of what it knows.

Maybe knowledge is the trap. The TREE OF LIFE is the ultimate con, because it's actually the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE, and if we just let go of all the Old Testament Judaic formulae.... forget to know the How and Why of a universe which ultimately is only our temporary residency... maybe we won't stay trapped anymore.... and maybe we won't feel so alone and determined to conquer all that we see to the point of complete strangulation.
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they will see God.

Under the shadow of thy wings, Jehovah.

User avatar
IndicusMaximus
Posts: 1437
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:42 pm
Location: The End
Contact:

Re: What is Evil?

Post by IndicusMaximus » Sat May 07, 2011 9:26 am

Daath, I believe, the sephiroth which isn't a sephiroth.... is the containing vessel for the entire Kabbalistic Tree. Knowledge of Daath is The End of Knowledge. The End of Knowledge is the reason a Messiah was foretold.... because this Kabbalistic knowledge was closely examined and re-examined over generations and it was probably generations old and well-established even in proto-Judaic times, and certain inconsistencies within the closed loop of knowledge led them to believe that there was still novelty and NEW information being added into a system which was thought of as completely closed off and completely self-existent.

Before we get into Quantum Shit... because honestly it's all a waste of FUCKING time....

Quite simply, there comes a point where people will have to lay down their Golden Calf of measurements and attributing their thoughts to the Watch-maker's true essence... because it doesn't fucking matter. Why? Because they're ruining the goddamn thing for everyone else. Is that a good enough reason?

You want evil? Look to what science has done to the Earth.

Quantum Physics will not fix anything either.

Philosophy is dead.

Knowledge is Dead.

Novelty... on our own terms.... is DEAD.

We have become a DEAD culture, worshiping DEAD things, DEAD to even our own selves, our own existence....

Sure religion has become distorted over time, but that's natural. It never destroyed or subjugated the world like Science and skepicism has.

You can call God whatever you want, but don't pretend to KNOW God, and don't pretend to be able to predict what it is that God can and can't do.

The next step after you've eliminated all other possibilities of salvation from the captivity of knowledge and disbelief is up to you.

I tell you now, I've seen the edge of time and space as we could ever possibly concieve of it, and it doesn't care how right or wrong you think or feel that you are, or how cynical you are, or how smart you are, or how dumb you are, or how sane or insane or together or apart that you are. You are imprisoned to rediscover that your fucking selves, your fucking desires, goals, your fucking jobs and schedules and everything in its little orders, your fucking enlightenment, your fucking spiritual greatness, your fucking bells and whistles and points of light balancing bullshit, alll of that shit that you sit here and squalk about valuing is VALUELESS.... and there's no drug or liquid or philosophy or happy thought or sad thought or rebellious thought or any fucking thing which you could either think of or unthink of or become absorbed in, even if you become the whole universe and take comfort in ping-ponging between googleplexiverses...

It doesn't fucking matter without something to save you from you, no matter how multiplicitous YOU are... if you haven't seen the VERY FUCKING END MOTHERFUCKERS... OF EVERY FUCKING THING AND NON THING.... and been forced to stare at that fact for years and years, without much deviation from that...

That you will even begin to understand why anything still matters.

It still matters because we weren't suposed to know... not because we couldn't know, not even because we shouldn't know.... but because we'd fuck up the plot because we knew... but don't worry because by fucking up the plot, which has been predicted... we have given The Author and the Creator of The Story, the privelidge to present Us with a new Script.

RELIGION, is the script we follow because it contains within it the structure of things to come. Without RELIGION, nothing would happen. No evolution of animals or planets or galaxies or universes. No new things to behold, neither spiritually, mentally, or physically. Nothing would unfold, and the closed loop would become nothing because nobody would care to be around to witness it anymore.

It's quite funny at the end of the day, because all of this new age occultism and pseudo-spiritual self-empowerment and self-salvation shit was founded off of a relatively old source and a relatively new source. The relatively old spiritual source was Buddha, who said two important things... Ultimate peace (nirvana) is a nightmare and a lie, and please don't listen to me. Nobody listened to those parts, which is ironic.
The relatively new source of wisdom comes from a man who is said to have founded much of modern day occult philosophy, Eliphaz Levi. I admire this man greatly because he, being a Man of The Cloth (He was a Roman Catholic Priest up until the day he died, and passed away and was buried as one). He said basically that the best magician is a man who neither performs magic nor cares for circumstance. A True Magician, in his eyes, will accept wealth and success as easily as he would accept failure and poverty. A true magician neither desires anything, nor turns anything away. The True Magician has faith in the Unknown. The true magician is not the author of his story, but merely the character in someone else's story. If the magician accepts his rather helpless role as merely a drifter through circumstance, magical things will happen. FAITH!

He made extensive light of Kabbalah, Tarot, Magic Ritual and Philosophy, Alchemy, and how it all ties in with Judeo-Christian, and especially Catholic, religion... but he presented all of that as both a joke to those who take any part of what he was presenting as gospel, and proof for those willing to work through and beyond it and see the whole picture as far as we can see it.... proof in the most simple concepts of the religion he was a part of until the day he left this world.

Faith in the one who writes the story for all of us that it has a good ending, if only we wouldn't seek to perfect what we do not and CANNOT understand correctly.

The Messiah is just God's editorial incarnation in case we get too far off the script, and he has to re-write the main ideas to better fit the times. He is both Witness to the Errors (The Sacrificial Lamb) and the Final Judge on what's still good and what needs to be either re-written or erased from the next cut of The Script.

So yes, I must say now that I believe in God and his only Scribe, Jesus Christ.

After all of that, Christians had it essentially right. They even had it so essentially right that they predicted someone would need to come and kick their ass and write an addendum to their stupid dumbass fuck ups.

So hey... I guess the anti-Christians can have a laugh, too... but don't laugh too hard or you might end up crying at how miserable YOU are that YOU don't have a book. You want me to write one for you? Should I call it "Uh Oh"?

Rant off, bitches.
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they will see God.

Under the shadow of thy wings, Jehovah.

User avatar
lkwalker
Posts: 6429
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:20 pm
Location: Boycotteverything
Contact:

Re: What is Evil?

Post by lkwalker » Sat May 07, 2011 10:22 am

You're talking nonsense. A discussion that purports to define a principle cannot assume a definition.
Philosophy is dead.

Knowledge is Dead.

Novelty... on our own terms.... is DEAD.
Those nihilistic pronouncements reduce dialogue to futile bullshit. And if you're going to use religious analogies at least get them right. The fruit of the Tree was of a specific order of truth, properly reserved for the Absurd- the knowledge of good and evil.

Philosophy isn't what you imagine it to be. It is an art and a discipline, not a repository of random horseshit.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

User avatar
IndicusMaximus
Posts: 1437
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:42 pm
Location: The End
Contact:

Re: What is Evil?

Post by IndicusMaximus » Sat May 07, 2011 11:52 am

The whole thing is knowledge...

It's been ordered into ten points and 22 paths, not including the hidden sephirot..... all of which has been lengthily expounded upon by numerous generations after numberous generations, and now there's a fucking encyclopedia on it called the zohar which if anyone ever read the whole thing in their lifetime would most likely bet their life on it considering its a fucking religious act of devotion just to finish the whole damn thing.

How is it not knowledge? And what use does it really have?

I find the whole exercise of worshiping knowledge even more useless than worshiping a flying spaghetti monster religion. It's bullshit and adults are miserable oppressive fucks who should be murdered by their children once they hit high school and realize how fucked up being an adult makes you.

Why can't people respect and honor a story? Why do they always have to ruin it for everyone except themselves? Humans are the most selfish bunch of shit stains ever, and ya know.... before we talk about charity and helping fellow man, why don't we take a break from worshiping our golden calf and realize that we've severely over-eaten on all of it, and now the story lays in ruins before us and we're still picking at it and pissing on it and forcing everyone to look at what a great and wonderful golden thing we have over here when we're living in a dead carcass surrounded by the rotting flesh of what once was a great epic tale. Absurdity? Absurdity only hides how hurt we all feel having ripped this great thing to shreds and shit all over it.

Knowledge? What good is it when it brings nothing but sorrow and degredation? What good is knowledge of how to fix a situation when knowledge of how to take advantage of a situation is much more conducive to the purpose of attainment of knowledge in the first place?
From now on, we should be moved by something other than selfishness and impatience. I've experience all of it, and it's all wrong. Nobody has the answers now. Everything now is just a patchwork for a patchwork for a garment that has already fallen to pieces.

United globally in useless trivia, but divided hopelessly as to where they are going as a species. Doesn't really matter what Whitehead or Bar Hashmashash
or Einsten or Crowley has said if nobody can agree on anything.

*Reggae beats and guitar, now...* Lift Jah up Higher! Jah Love! One Love!

Sing now:

Babylon will not rise without a saviour in disguise, oh Jah!

Babylon full of Lies, where can I rest my weary Eyes, Oh Lord!?

I and I rastafari, Prince of Sorrows is my Guide, save Jah!

Babylon will not Rise without a saviour in disguise, oh Jah!


- Bob Marley's Spirit, circa eternity
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they will see God.

Under the shadow of thy wings, Jehovah.

User avatar
lkwalker
Posts: 6429
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:20 pm
Location: Boycotteverything
Contact:

Re: What is Evil?

Post by lkwalker » Sat May 07, 2011 12:00 pm

Knowledge? What good is it when it brings nothing but sorrow and degredation?
Knowledge is always potential. And there's a reason that it's said in Zohar that the study of Cabala is forbidden before the age of 40.
"If you don't think to good, don't think too much." Yogi

User avatar
IndicusMaximus
Posts: 1437
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:42 pm
Location: The End
Contact:

Re: What is Evil?

Post by IndicusMaximus » Sat May 07, 2011 12:29 pm

You remind me of Dr. Parnassus
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they will see God.

Under the shadow of thy wings, Jehovah.

MrPenny
Posts: 722
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: What is Evil?

Post by MrPenny » Sat May 07, 2011 3:12 pm

He reminds me of Dr. Seuss.

Post Reply